[music]

Sarah Wendell: Hello there, happy Friday, and welcome to episode number 625 of Smart Podcast, Trashy Books. I’m Sarah Wendell, Amanda is with me, and it’s time to look at the December 1997 ads and features. We have a cover with an uncountable number of fonts, we’ve got several memorials for Princess Diana, and we find out what happens when you win an award and you find out while you’re on the john at work. There are profiles of readers and romance reading book clubs; there’s AOL chat rooms about romance for writers and readers; it’s a wonderful time capsule. Just come with us; it’s so much fun.

I do want to warn you that it is 1997. There’s a lot of talking about Princess Diana, so we have a good bit of death and some terrible anti-fat bias in this issue, so I wanted to give you a heads-up for that. Some things we leave in the past.

I will have links to all of the books that we talk about and links to the podcast that I refer to in the show notes. And you know where to find that, right? Smartbitchestrashybooks.com/podcast under episode 625.

Hello to Megan S., who is one of the newest members of our podcast Patreon. Hi, folks! Thank you for supporting the show. If you join our Patreon, you get bonus episodes, you get the full PDF scan of this glorious, glorious magazine. If we talked about everything that was interesting inside each one, these episodes would be hours and hours and hours. Which means that garlicknitter would – [laughs] – have a lot to do. Hi, garlicknitter! The other benefit to being in the Patreon is that you are supporting the show and you’re making sure that every episode has a transcript hand-compiled by garlicknitter. Hey, garlicknitter! Hope you’re having a good day. [Thanks, you too! – gk] If you would like to join, have a look at patreon.com/SmartBitches. Monthly pledges start at one dollar a month.

All right, are you ready? You ready to go back in time? I’m ready to go back in time. Let’s do this. On – or back – to December 1997.

[music]

Sarah: It’s time to do the ads and features for December 1997, issue 165 of Romantic Times Magazine! This is quite a cover.

Amanda: It is.

Sarah: There’s like nine –

Amanda: Fuchsia’s back.

Sarah: There’s like nine fonts.

Amanda: Yeah. Nine fonts, lots of purples and pinks.

Sarah: She’s wearing a belly dancer belt on her forehead.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: You know when she took that off –

Amanda: …that is supposed to go.

Sarah: – after, after this photo shoot was over, you know that, like, there was hair in it; it hurt; like, it’s –

Amanda: Oh yeah.

Sarah: – pulled her hair. Like, that’s just not –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – great hair. And he’s wearing some kind of necklace. It’s got rows of long beads that kind of look like bone?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Like, it reminds me of something more, like, Western or indigenous than Sheik!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I also think – I obviously don’t know for sure – the Sheik part, I’m pretty sure that was hand-drawn for the cover. I don’t think that was a font; I think those were, like, done by hand. But I could be wrong.

Amanda: I mean, it looks, like, custom, right?

Sarah: It does look custom. Lot of decoration in the S there?

Amanda: They took the, the font from the actual cover –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – and colored it.

Sarah: I –

Amanda: So, yeah, I would say someone would have to do that custom, probably.

Sarah: I would really love to know what the process of doing the cover art for the magazine was like if they were using the book cover. In this case it’s the book’s stepback, because the cover just has guy with long hair and abs and nipples –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – under a purple sheet just looking at you. The stepback is where we have belly dancer forehead and, you know, she’s, she looks sleepy, but maybe she’s awake. Anyway.

Amanda: I think that’s a better cover! The stepback…

Sarah: I think it’s a great cover! It’s much more interesting –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – than having the guy stare at you.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: But what’s interesting is that if this is the cover image – so publishers used to do something called a cover flat? You worked with cover flats before, right? It’s just like the cardboard cover of the book, and you just get a flat of it? Like, I have –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – cover flats from my first book. And I think publishers stopped doing them, ‘cause it was kind of like What do we do with all this paper? But I’m wondering if they –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – get the cover flat or they get the, the cover of the stepback, and it’s already got the title on it when they get it from the publisher, or how did, how did this happen? Because that’s a really ornate title treatment.

Amanda: Yeah. I don’t know! If anyone worked in publishing at that time –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – is listening.

Sarah: Nine fonts. Also, if you look at the bottom it says Leisure Books, a division of Dorchester? Like, the –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – publisher credit is at the bottom there. So I wonder who paid for this, the publisher or the author?

Amanda: My guess is the publisher.

Sarah: So many fonts.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So many fonts.

Amanda: But then, like, the next cover, the inside flap, I guess, is what it would be, is another cover –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – from Leisure Books –

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: – a division of Dorchester, for Strands of Gold by Kathleen Morgan? I think the, the pink font on this background is a bad choice.

Sarah: You know, let me grab the magazine, ‘cause I have the actual magazine here, and I –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I want to just give myself credit that I adjusted my settings and I did a much better job scanning this? But it’s no easy, it’s not even easy to read in, in print. Like, you can barely make out the words that are against the dark rocks. Like, it’s really bad contrast. Which is weird, because down at the bottom it says orderly, Order your favorite Leisure and Love Spell, and that’s in yellow.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: I also flagged this insta-, in-, inside cover, because I think he has a third nipple. If you look at his nipple, the one that’s facing you, and you go –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – straight down, between his waist, the top of his big ol’ belt –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – and his nipple, that, is that a third nipple?

Amanda: It looks –

Sarah: Nippular!

Amanda: – nipple-ish, for sure.

Sarah: It, I think there’s a third nipple, or it’s like a weird shadow? Like, again, I’m –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – looking at the print edition, and it’s even more pronounced in print. Maybe it’s a vein, but it looks like a nipple. He’s got three nipples.

Amanda: No, it does, it does – [laughs] –

Sarah: He’s got a third nipple.

Amanda: – for sure.

Sarah: And here’s what wild: If you go through, from the cover to page 2 to page 3, which is an ad for Crimson Lace by Linda Francis Lee, and the cover is, here’s a fan. It’s a picture of a fan.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So we got a belly dancer and split ends and Quaalude making out, and then we got a third nipple, and now you get a fan.

Amanda: Yeah, and, like, we’re going to parts of the magazine that are not in, like, full color. Did you see the ad for this Crimson Lace? The author’s giving away a miniature tea set?

Sarah: Yes! It’s a really terrible picture, but it looks really cute!

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs] All you have to do is, like, send your name and address.

Sarah: I hope somebody enjoyed their miniature tea set. It kind of looks like it’s made out of muffin batter?

Amanda: [Laughs] If you’ve seen old footage of, like, the Titanic wreckage?

Sarah: Yes! 

Amanda: And everything has, like –

Sarah: It was on the ocean floor.

Amanda: Yeah, like, this crust, this rust and crust on it.

Sarah: Barnacles.

Amanda: That, yeah, that’s what it looks like.

Sarah: This pattern is Barnacles.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So then we get to page 6, where Flavia has a big ol’ spread!

Amanda: Yeah, she does. Some of it’s weird.

Sarah: So many little features about authors, and, and this is very much of a time, I think, when the magazine was invested in making authors – like, treating authors like celebrities. Like, this was as much a celebrity fan magazine as it was a reader magazine, and the authors are all very glamorous. Like, Eileen Goudge is pictured, and her hair is just perfectly up, and she’s got gorgeous pearl earrings and gorgeous makeup. So at the top, this is a weird article:

>> Alice Borchardt following in the Rice footsteps.

>> Alice Borchardt, first known to readers as Anne Rice’s older sister, has just –

Amanda: Oh boy!

Sarah: >> – come into her own as a future fiction star. The Janklow Nesbit Agency is negotiating a $600,000 contract for three –

Amanda: That’s beefy.

Sarah: Yeah!

>> – for three books with Random House’s Del Rey imprint. The contract –

Amanda: …from 1997? Six hundred thousand –

Sarah: 1997, how much is that now?

Amanda: I’m going to look.

Sarah: >> The contract was the result of what Alice calls “My finest work so far: The Silver Wolf. She’s working on some revision to have galleys ready for Frankfurt Book Fair. Les-, Lynn Nesbit shepherded this unique historical fantasy to be published as women’s fiction.

Amanda: Six hundred thousand in December 1997?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: That’s equivalent of one, almost 1.2 million dollars.

Sarah: Gosh darn, that’s a lot of dollars.

Amanda: [Laughs] Yeah.

Sarah: >> Alice suffers greatly from rheumatoid arthritis –

Oof.

>> – but nothing gets her down for long. She lives with her husband Cliff in Houston, not that far from Kathryn Falk –

Everybody drink!

>> – who she credits with giving her the advice that resulted in this great coup. “Kathryn told me –

Amanda: Oh boy.

Sarah: >> – to go to my agent and demand she make me a star! Also, my sister didn’t want me to resi-, re-sign with my former publisher, so that’s how it all evolved.

You’re just talking shit and dropping dollars, dropping dollar amounts.

>> We all congratulate Alice, who proves that writing talent can be nurtured, it can be inherited, and it can be due to dogged persistence.

Ohhh boy. What a weird article.

Then, if you go to page 7 of the PDF, this, this whole, like, section of Flavia is just weird publish-, it’s a weird mix of like Publishers Lunch and gossip. It’s like if doom, DeuxMoi –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and Publishers Lunch had a baby. So Jennifer Blake ran a contest to promote her January paperback where a lucky winner and their guest will be flown to, from any destination in the continental US to New Orleans for a weekend in the French Quarter, and then they go to Bourbon French Parfums. They will get a personal scent designed for the winner –

Amanda: That’s cool.

Sarah: – a scent only she will be able to buy. And apparently there’s already, this perfumery has already created a Perfume of Paradise, commissioned by Jennifer, when the trade size edition of Perfume of Paradise was released in 1988.

>> Samples of the exotic perfume and entry forms will be mailed to six hundred bookstores across the country in September to promote the contest.

Amanda: Wow.

Sarah: >> You can also enter by mail.

They’re going to send six hundred perfume samples and entry forms to bookstores. She’s having a person and a guest flown to New Orleans from anywhere in the continental US to have a perfume commissioned just for them.

Amanda: Remember when publishing would just light money on fire?

Sarah: Yeah! I mean, I would love to know that this was Fawcett and not Jennifer Blake underwriting this, but that is, the, the bookstore thing and the perfume samples makes me think the publisher’s very involved.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: They used to do things with money.

Amanda: They still do stupid things with money.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: But it’s just not as interesting anymore, I feel like.

Sarah: Tom Clancy got a nine-figure deal, and the first line is:

>> Tom Clancy, the nearly seven-foot former insurance agent, created a new genre known as the techno fiction in 1984.

Amanda: Is that, is that really how tall he was?

Sarah: Oh yeah, he was a tall, tall dude.

Amanda: I’m sorry; they said nearly seven-foot? I put Tom Clancy height, and it says six-two.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Six-two is not seven feet, Tom Clancy.

Sarah: No, there are many inches between six-two and seven.

Amanda: What is this, a Tinder profile?

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: Like, this is not –

Sarah: [Laughs] All the pictures are taken from the ground looking up!

Amanda: You’re not seven feet!

Sarah: Well, he’s definitely not now; he’s dead! [Laughs] He’s, I mean, he might be, but he’s underground.

All right, so then we take a hard turn.

Amanda: Yeah! When I saw this I was like, Oh!

[Laughter]

Sarah: So it is December 1997, and if the magazine is being sent to the printers a month in advance, this is the issue in which they remember Princess Diana, who died in August of 1997. And there is a whole article – my only comment here is, this is so wild. There is a whole article about how Kathryn Falk was connected to Princess Diana, basically by inviting her to stuff.

Amanda: Well, later on there’s like a page about, like, romance authors remembering Princess Diana.

Sarah: Yes! I have that marked –

Amanda: And –

Sarah: – because it is absurd.

Amanda: And Barbara Cartland makes a quote, and all her quote was was like, Oh, Princess Diana once commented about how much she loved my books, or whatever. [Laughs] And I’m like, Barbara!

Sarah: Well, the –

Amanda: Read the room!

Sarah: So Diana’s father, Earl Spencer, his mother-in-law was Barbara Cartland. So they, he, she –

Amanda: What?!

Sarah: Yes! She was related to Diana by marriage, which is why Kathryn Falk was making the most of that connection.

Amanda: Wow.

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: Wow, wow, wow. Yeah.

Sarah: So if you go to PDF page 10, lower right corner, this is, this did not scan very well, but I feel like this letter is just really incredible.

Amanda: Is it Awards in the Loo?

Sarah: Awards in the Loo.

>> There’s one thing I have to mention. The next time you want to give me an award for Bookseller of the Year, please let me know before I read it in your newsletter first. I was in the bathroom at work when I read it, and I nearly fell off the toilet seat. A person could hurt herself getting news like that! My employees thought I’d killed myself from the cacophony emitting from the loo! I called and told my husband right away. He was very happy for me. When I told my kids I had some wonderful news, they thought I was pregnant. God forbid such thoughts! This is much better. Kathy Rashid, Books, Books, Books in Bradenton, Florida.

That was –

Amanda: I’m going to say something judgmental.

Sarah: That was a lot. What are you going to say?

Amanda: Girl, you’re from Florida. Why are you calling it the loo?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Are you trying to impress Kathryn? We know better. We don’t call it that in Florida.

Sarah: The cacophony emitting from the loo.

Amanda: And if you’re a Brit who relocated to Florida, girl, what are you doing?

Sarah: On page 14 and 15, there is a tour of Diana Gabaldon’s house. So here’s the thing –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – this is the third one of these that we’ve seen. There was one of Cassie Edwards, there was one of – who was it? – there was one – oh! Nora Roberts had one.

Amanda: It’s like Cribs.

Sarah: It’s like the, it’s like the –

Amanda: MTV Cribs.

Sarah: It’s like the print version of the Architectural Digest YouTube tours of people’s homes? Like, they’re taking you into the, into writers’ homes, and there’s pictures, so they have to visit, or they have to ask for these pictures? But there’s a picture of her working with her feet up on a folding chair. There’s a picture of her bathtub, because obviously, and a picture of the outside of the house, and next to the master bad, bedroom, above, is a master bath with Jacuzzi where plants cascade around the tub. Like, what is this?

Amanda: I don’t know if I’d go around posting what my house looks like in a magazine.

Sarah: It’s super, it’s very weird, but there’s a bunch of these where they go to a famous author’s house and are like, Take pictures of your bedroom! Like, okay, first of all, no. But what, what a weird thing, and they were really doing this in every issue.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So page 22 and 23 of the PDF is Networking, Reader Profile –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: – where they profile Sandy Hustle of North Fort Myers?

Amanda: This is so cute and funny.

Sarah: It’s so cute! North Fort Myers, Florida! Personal facts: craft road show owner. Favorite authors, favorite bookstore, and it, they give you a little profile of a reader.

>> Sandy wants to find pen pals who share her taste in books. Write to her!

And then, here’s her address. North Fort Myers, Florida.

Amanda: Lot of Florida readers.

Sarah: Yeah! Then there’s the Book Sleuth, where it’s like HaBOs. Then there’s a whole feature about a readers group who met because they were all Betty Neels fans, and so they called their meetings –

Amanda: That’s cute.

Sarah: – the Betty Neels Tea, and now they talk about all the different romances that they love, and there’s a little picture of them and everything. So you could keep profiled, you could be profiled as a reader group, or you could profiled as a reader, and it’s so adorable.

So then we get to page 24 of the PDF.

Amanda: Online romance!

Sarah: This is so funny. Did you flag this too?

Amanda: Yeah, I was like, Wow, birth of the internet, right here. Geeze Louise. [Laughs]

Sarah: >> Kathy Lands, an award-winning and bestselling author of contemporary category romances is also an avid romance reader. Her internet ID is xgev62b @ prodigy.com. 

[Laughter]

Sarah: There’s a whole article about talking about books online.

And then –

Amanda: I also love the –

Sarah: – romance on AOL at the bottom!

Amanda: They have a chat room lineup!

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: So if you want, they have, like, researching romance. So you join this chat room at, on Friday at 10 p.m. Or if you were a reader and you wanted to chat, I’m assuming the author would join, like Jude Deveraux the first Tuesday of the month at 9:30. So you could, like, be in a chat room with an author or with other, like, readers.

Sarah: Yep! And you can –

Amanda: That’s –

Sarah: – sign up for a free copy of America Online and look at the Writer’s Club Romance group. There’s also a little disclaimer down at the bottom:

>> Libby Hall and Debbie Hancock, RWA president and vice president respectively, recently informed us that the chat RWA on AOL is not a registered chapter. Therefore, we removed it from our schedule.

Amanda: Okay!

Sarah: So they had little romance chat, writer’s club romance groups, and you could, like, do little chats! That’s so cute!

Amanda: That’s very sweet. [Laughs]

Sarah: What a time capsule.

Amanda: I know! [Laughs]

Sarah: So then on PDF page 29 was where I wanted to go next, and I just want to get Ms. J. Watson of Winnipeg, Canada, if she is still with us, I would like to buy J. Watson a drink.

>> Dear RT,

>> Authors and publishers of series romances should take note of Marilyn Tyner’s first paperback romance, Arabesque’s Step by Step, June 1997. Her heroine is short and full-figured, not the usual tall, slim model types. Romance authors should be writing about heroines of all ages, size, shapes, and shades, loved and cherished and appreciated by handsome heroes of all ages and careers. Step by Step is definitely a keeper book. Please write about heroines of normal, realistic sizes!

I will buy this woman a drink if she is still around. But the response is even –

Amanda: Was –

Sarah: – is appalling. Do you want to read the response? Because I’m a, I’m –

Amanda: I started reading it; I’m like, Fuck you! [Laughs]

Sarah: Right? There’s another letter from Jamie Andrews that’s just above it that talks about reading about a woman who is a, who, who’s fat.

Amanda: So the magazine’s response was:

>> Dear Miss Andrews and Watson,

>> Once again we must emphasize that this is purely a matter of taste and preference. One might –

Sarah: TL;DR: You’re wrong! [Laughs]

Amanda: >> One might argue that most women read romances for the fantasy and that they want heroines that are idealistically beautiful.

Sarah: Mm.

Amanda: >> Those same women read romances for heroes who are young and virile, even if they better resemble their sons instead of their fifty-something husbands.

Sarah: Okay, ew! Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew!

Amanda: What a fucking judgmental C-U-N-T.

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: >> It doesn’t mean that they don’t see larger women as beautiful or that they don’t love their husbands’ love handles or that they are obsessed with younger men. Don’t we all get lost in the fantasy of Cinderella, seeing ourselves riding into the sunset with Prince Charming? The reality is that not even Cindy Crawford has a waist that small.

Sarah: Oy!

Amanda: >> Yet we love Cinderella because she represents sheer beauty – a beauty from within. That is what we want in our heroines: a beauty that is pure and transcends the physical. If larger-sized heroines can be created with that kind of beauty, then why not?

Sarah: What an absolutely terrible response. What the shit?

Amanda: I hate it.

Sarah: Absolutely terrible response, but I’m still buying J. Watson a drink. Can you believe that bullshit?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Anyway.

So then we have two pages of author memorials of Princess Diana, and some of these are really, really wild, and this whole section is just quite a, quite a trip. Anne Perry writes:

>> In coming to accept Princess Diana has died, it’s as if a little bit of brightness in all of us has died. Doesn’t it remind you desperately of your own mortality? It’s amazing that one person can do that.

Anne Perry, famously a person who murdered her best friend’s mom in New Zealand. I think many things remind me of my own mortality where Anne Perry is concerned.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: Belva Plain writes:

>> The tragedy of Princess Diana began with a fraudulent ceremony in the cathedral of St. Paul, where a man stood behind, beside a trusting young girl and made vows that he quickly broke, so she suffered and their children suffer, along with millions of others in ruined families. In the end, adultery can destroy the entire culture of the West. We need to take a long look at the seventh commandment and give it some thought.

[Laughs] Wow!

Amanda: Bel-, Belva’s intense.

Sarah: Belva had some feelings!

[Cross talk]

Sarah: How…feeling…

Amanda: …chill.

Sarah: Yeah, no chill on this one.

Amanda: [Laughs] No chill!

Sarah: I don’t un- – on the next page is Diana Gabaldon’s? Do you understand what this means?

Amanda: I’m looking. [Pause] No. I don’t.

Sarah: What does this mean? You want to read this?

Amanda: >> God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the strong.

Sarah: God has chosen –

Amanda: What does that…Diana?

Sarah: – the weak things of the world to confound the strong. What does that even mean?

Jude Deveraux comes in with:

>> Diana, Princess of Wales, was a sacrifice. Her death shows us what we do to high-profile people: we devour them. We forget she was a real person. Her death is on all of us.

Okay, okay, Jude. Dial it back there, just a little bit.

Then there’s the special memorial gathering –

Amanda: I’m sorry, I just read Janet Evanovich’s quote.

Sarah: Wait, what?!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Janet what? You want to read that one?

Amanda: I think it’s a terr- – yeah.

>> I think it’s a terrible tragedy, and I think we need to direct less anger toward the media and more toward driving drunk.

Sarah: I can be mad at more than one thing at a time, Janet. It is a skill that I possess, and I can tell you what’s wrong with the media and with drunk driving and – okay!

Amanda: Great.

Sarah: This poor woman; she’s, like, all, so much is projected onto Princess Diana. Like, let’s, like, she’s, it’s like, it’s like Marilyn Monroe: just let her rest. Just let her be.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So the bottom, the special memorial gathering is just, it’s really something. Did you read this?

Amanda: I certainly did.

Sarah: Okay. Would you like to read this aloud? Because it is just such a journey.

Amanda: >> A special memorial gathering by Kathryn Falk. We mourned the Princess of Wales in a special way. Friends and strangers drove in, flew in, and some traveled great distances to arrive at Camp Royal, my home in Alvin, Texas, on Friday evening, the 4th of September. We donned black and brought out a box of tissues, especially needed when Elton John sang. Staying up all night and watching the funeral is something no one will ever forget. Afterwards, our group performed an ancient Chinese ceremony to honor the princess.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: >> We cut out red paper figures of things we thought Diana would like in the afterlife, then threw them into a fire and watched the smoke symbolically carry them to her. We made books, flowers, and music cassettes, along with a moon, a star, a lotus flower, a musical note, a hat, and, of course, children.

Sarah: Oh boy.

Amanda: >> Sharon Middleton, a local lawyer, played her Irish harp beside the pool as the sun was setting. Susan Paul is now working on a novel inspired by the events.

Please don’t do that.

Sarah: Don’t do that.

Amanda: >> Vicky Province, Camp Royal’s manager and my father’s nanny?

Sarah: Her father had dementia; remember the chicken? The rooster? The emotional support rooster that she bought to, she brought to RT?

Amanda: I don’t know if I would refer to her as a nanny; like, health or, like, help aide, but –

Sarah: Yeah. Okay.

Amanda: Okay.

>> – made a delicious buffet, organized the big guest house to sleep the crowd, and made everything go smoothly. My eighty-two-year-old father enjoyed the company of all the ladies, although he couldn’t quite follow what was going on. He did say driving fast is dangerous and thirty-six is too young to die.

Sarah: And then there’s pictures of Kathryn, I think, putting stuff into the fireplace, and then people looking at the newspaper with Diana on the cover; I guess that looks like USA Today maybe?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Ancient Chinese ceremony. Wow. That’s a rich text is what that is.

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s a, that’s a rich text. Whoo!

And then in a, in a little swerve – do-do-do – page 33 of the PDF, on the right there?

>> Timeless romance. Romantic Times Library. Look for these classic romances by Jean Hager, Edith Delatush, Donna Kimel Vitek, Elaine Raco Chase, and Kathy Clark at the following discount stores: Dollar General, All for One, Dollar Tree, National Book Warehouse, and Walgreens.

So they were publishing dollar store editions of older titles priced under two dollars!

Amanda: So this brings me – so recently Costco has decided that they’re not going to sell books year round anymore, and in publishing, and when I was doing my master’s degree, we learned about the different sort of like pricing and stocking structures.

Sarah: You told me about this, and I have never – I think about it at least once a month. That this was, this was that they, they price by the foot, right?

Amanda: Yeah. You have to, like, pretty much buy out the literal physical space that the books are going to be stocked in. You have to be like, Yeah, we’re going to sell X amount of books for this space of table. What is shocking to me, speaking of, like, stocking these things, is, like, my CVS still has a book section, and I am very curious if anyone is buying mass markets or other little paperbacks at drugstores anymore.

Sarah: I don’t know!

Amanda: Like, I’m really surprised they haven’t closed their book sections in, like, Walgreens and CVS and stuff like that.

Sarah: And you have to think about the profit, the, the profit margin for books that are priced under two dollars, specifically meant for Dollar General and Dollar Tree and Walgreens. And these were older – so, like, the one that’s pictured is No Promise Given by Kimel Vitek? That was originally a Candlelight Ecstasy, that was an older book, so I’m wondering if that author got the rights back and then sold them to Romantic Times Library for this discount copy, and if they were a publisher, were they making any money from this?

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t know.

Sarah: It’s weird, right? I haven’t –

Amanda: Yeah, there’s not a lot of, there’s not a big profit margin in general –

Sarah: In books, no.

Amanda: – when it comes to selling books.

Sarah: Especially with the prices keep going down, down, down for digital and up, up, up for print. The other thing that’s weird is that I, I keep searching, and I haven’t found any copies of this book.

Amanda: Oh, interesting!

Sarah: I haven’t found any Romantic Times Library copies. I’ll have to keep searching when I’m not on, you know, when I’m not recording.

Amanda: Some of these features I thought were so weird?

Sarah: Oh, there were a lot of weird ones! Like, I was like, Okay, Sarah, you can’t talk about every weird feature; they’re all weird in this one.

Amanda: So I was just curious, ‘cause this relates back, so I’m on Tête-a-tête –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – page 40.

Sarah: Something I want to talk about on that page too! Tell me everything.

Amanda: Is it, is it Monica Harris?…

Sarah: No!

Amanda: So, so I remember when we did our bonus episode about Kathryn Falk, I believe, or maybe it was prior to that bonus episode, where we were talking about other stuff, about how, like, she claims to have discovered or boosted certain, like, women of color publishing in the space, that sort of thing.

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: But, yeah, I thought it was interesting because they mention Monica Harris, and this is, like, publishing news, this column.

>> Monica Harris has left her position as editor of Arabesque, the multicultural line she developed for Kensington in 1994, which opened the door for many of today’s African-American romance writers. Her new post is editor of nonfiction hardcovers at Carol Publishers in Secaucus, New Jersey. Harris told a crowd of well-wishers at a recent New York Romance Writers of America fete, I will miss romance; it will always be my first love. The chapter honored her as Editor of the Year for her boundless work, energy, and devotion to romance and Arabesque.

I thought it was interesting, considering all of the recent talk that we’ve had about RWA and Kathryn Falk’s in-, “involvement” in promoting authors of color.

Sarah: Unfortunately, Monica Harris passed away in 2012 after a short illness.

Amanda: Aw.

Sarah: She was part of Arabesque and launched Arabesque with Forever Yours by Francis Ray and Serenade by Sandra Kitt.

>> She took an aggressive stance toward marketing, including a publicity drive to celebrate February as Arabesque month.

And if you notice now, February is Black History Month!

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: >> She also established Love Notes and Read My Lips, which provided information about Arabesque books and authors to independent major book chains, a unique approach at the time.

And she went to nonfiction and was the editor in chief of the first African-American book club with Doubleday.

>> The Black Expressions Book Club successfully persuaded publishers to increase their lists and remained one of the most popular direct-mail book clubs.

Amanda: Also, great glamour shot.

Sarah: Gorgeous glamour shot; truly, truly beautiful glamour shot. Well, Monica Harris Mindolovich was, was, was her name when she died, and her obituary in the, in the USA Today was written by author Michelle Monkou.

Amanda: Oh!

Sarah: Also a past RWA president.

On that same page, there’s another little time capsule. Esoaps.com! The first –

Amanda: Oh my…

Sarah: – email soap opera!

>> Subscriptions to the soap opera E-tanglements are free! Daily episodes are delivered by email Monday through Friday. The soap opera is written by romance writer Joanne Reed, who weaves a tangled web of love, hate, and deceit set in the New England town of Walkersville, where past sins are never forgotten.

New England small towns just need to calm down. Just –

Amanda: I mean, Walkersville does not feel like a New England small town name.

Sarah: >> To subscribe, send an email to [email protected], type Subscribe –

Amanda: Is it still available?

Sarah: >> – or visit esoaps.com.

Did I –

Amanda: I’m looking.

Sarah: Esoaps.com. Nope!

Amanda: Nothing loads.

Sarah: That’s a big ol’ blank page. So this is really interesting to me for a couple of reasons. One, it’s super clever. What were they selling? Were they collecting, was this like early collecting of email addresses? Were they selling the, the list? Like, why, if, if it’s free, you’re the product, right? So what were they selling?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: One author was writing it, which is very cool that they got credit, but think about how this compares to now, where you have authors writing serials, and you have authors writing series –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – that are released, you know, weekly or digitally. That’s still happening. It’s very cool!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: That’s very, very cool.

Amanda: I also, not, just related to, like, soap opera stuff in general, I’m still shocked every time I go to the grocery store and there’s, like, Soap Opera Digest still on the, on the rack.

Sarah: And it’s all the same actors. Like, if you want to see people –

Amanda: Who is buying them?

Sarah: – people, if you want to see, like, people aging? It’s kind of amazing that soap opera has these aging actors, and they’re still treated as, like, hot and authoritative and, and, you know, desirable? It’s kind of amazing. And soaps are hard work, too. If you’re an actor, it’s a great job, but it’s hard work.

Amanda: Yeah, it’s a grueling schedule, considering new episodes air five days a week for the most part.

Sarah: And some of them are still on! It’s kind of cool.

Amanda: I don’t think they re- – or maybe they did review this book. I, I was very curious. This ad got me? On the next page or like page 43 of the PDF?

Sarah: Mm-hmm?

Amanda: The She rode across the West hell-bent on revenge –

Sarah: Sounds great!

Amanda: – with a dangerous gunslinger? I was like, Ooh! That seems interesting. And then there’s a review of it, but I don’t know if I want to read the review, because I’m worried it will just immediately spoil any excitement that I have?

Sarah: Okay, hang on, I’ll, I’ll skim it for you.

Amanda: You read it and be like –

Sarah: All right.

Amanda: – Ooh! I don’t know.

Sarah: All right, so they, both of these characters sound kind of incredible.

>> Jacey’s Reckless Heart has a very powerful, complex plot; an emotional story that held me breathless. It’s not an easy story to forget, and Cheryl Anne Porter’s talents have never shown brighter. The stage is set for the final volume in the trilogy, and it will be hard to wait for it.

All right! Sounds like it’s really – so it takes place in Mexico in the 1870s, four and a half stars? Listen, I think this sounds like a really off-the-wall historical. Yeah, ‘cause Jacey, whose heart is reckless, as in the title? She’s searching –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – for the killer of her ex-outlaw moth-, father and mother. Now, I don’t know if her father is the ex-outlaw or they’re both ex-outlaws, but clearly Jacey is not to be trifled with.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So –

Amanda: Then my next, my next one wasn’t until page 50 of the PDF, 48 of the magazine –

Sarah: ‘Kay.

Amanda: – where it was Indulge in Christmas Pie?

[Laughter]

Sarah: That’s the name of the book, too! Christmas Pie!

Amanda: I know! I saw that and I’m like, Oh, are we going to get another weird recipe? ‘Cause we had two so far.

Sarah: I mean, like the one where you put things in the oven and then you read the first chapter, and then that’s – [laughter] –

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: …out?

Amanda: But there was, like, another one for, like, seafood, and you put milk on your prawns or whatever –

Sarah: What were your frozen prawns –

Amanda: – to make them not so stinky.

Sarah: If they smell fishy, soak them in milk!

[Laughter]

Amanda: But no! This is not a recipe for any sort of pie, and I was very bummed, ‘cause then she’s like, Please write to me, and it’s like, Oh, if you write to her, does she give you a recipe for Christmas Pie? And then it’s like, no, that’s just the name of the book. [Laughs]

Sarah: She’s in Roswell, New Mexico, so if there’s aliens, maybe they have pie!

Amanda: What do, what are the aliens serving – [laughs] – for their Christmas pie?

And then my next note was page 54?

Sarah: Oh, I have lots to say about 54. 54 through 55 is a –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Okay, listen, this just –

Amanda: I was disappointed…

Sarah: Just, I just, I just need everyone to know that if you sign up for the Patreon, you get the full PDF scan, and there’s no way I’m going to be able to put this page on the website and do it justice. If you – look, you could, I don’t care if you sign up for a dollar, download them, and then, like, quit. Like, it’s fine! It’s totally cool. There’s so many nipples. [Laughs]

Amanda: Yeah. Well the –

Sarah: So many!

Amanda: So the, the article is called “Love Spell in Search of Your Perfect Hero” –

Sarah: This isn’t real.

Amanda: – and then, like, the subhead says:

>> Send a photo of your very own real-life hero, and he might end up on the cover of a Love Spell novel.

And this is kind of like a cover model contest of sorts?

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: But I was hoping, before I read through, that it was like send us a photo of your partner or whoever, and we’ll send, like, you a personalized cover with, like, their face Photoshopped on it. I thought it was going to be like a fun little novelty project. [Laughs]

Sarah: No, they’re just searching for cover models, and they want you to send them pictures.

>> What we will be looking for are good quality photos of great-looking men in sexy, seductive poses, one that we can turn into beautiful painted illustrations like the one below. We thought it would be a fun way for readers to become personally involved in the creation of the series.

Amanda: Can you imagine approaching your husband to do a photo shoot like this? Like –

Sarah: Well, you know what? My son-in-law’s kind of hot. My, my son’s been working out; my husband’s pretty great-looking. Honey, I need you to pose sexy and seductively. Come in here; I’m going to set up, like – what, are you supposed to set up a couch and, like, put a drape on it? Do you, like, have them pose in the curtains? And, like, this is 1997, so unless you’ve got a really good camera – no one has a camera phone – this is like, like a, like a point-and-shoot disposable from CVS? Is that what we’re doing here? What was the set up? Who, who convinced a, a sexy, seductive dude to do sexy, seductive poses? Where were the poses? What was the set like?

Amanda: I –

Sarah: How long did this take? What did Walgreens say when you got the photos developed? I need to know!

Amanda: I think it’d make for a cute romance novel of, like, Oh, a friend, like, submits her friend’s, like, Instagram account to, like, a cover model contest, and he actually wins and then, you know, she has to explain, Oops!

Sarah: Sorry.

Amanda: I submitted this as a joke, and now you won!

Sarah: I need to blow-dry your hair real quick into some luscious waves, and we’re going to do some sexy, seductive poses. What follows this one-page a-, like, little ad, basically? Advertorial for their We want cover models. And there’s no mention of, like, how much they’re paying. Are they paying?

Amanda: We don’t know!

Sarah: It’s a new concept, and hope readers’ll be a part of it and send in photos of their perfect heroes. What do you get? What, like, are you going to pay these people for their work? Anyway.

Amanda: But the page that follows is a giant collage.

Sarah: It is a giant collage.

Amanda: Sarah, you have to tag yourself: which one are you?

Sarah: [Laughs]

Amanda: Who are you in this year? In this collage?

Sarah: So the first thing that I noticed is how many DeSalvos there are? There’s like six DeSalvos! John is all over this. John DeSalvo, I hope you’re having a good day, ‘cause we are looking at your nipples. I feel really weird that I know what this guy’s nipples look like. Like, his, my –

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So we’re doing that post on romance memorabilia, and I added my pictures to the post, and of course I did the, the oil painting on my office wall, which is John DeSalvo, and I have, you know, he’s, like, with a gladiator toga and, you know, his nipple! I, I spend a lot of time just having John DeSalvo’s nipple in my background. It’s –

Amanda: In your background, yeah.

Sarah: In my background. It’s just, it’s just a part of my day. There are so many John DeSalvo nipples on this page. So. Many. Nipples.

Amanda: Can you pick his nipples out of a lineup?

Sarah: Probably at this point, yes! I probably could. They change his hair color; like, nope, that’s John DeSalvo.

All right, so over on the left there, we’ve got a guy that looks like Richard Gere?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: That’s pretty great. But I think –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I am the guy –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – whose head is inside the C, perfectly –

Amanda: That’s what I was going to pick!

[Laughter]

Sarah: So Put Your Perfect Hero on Our Romance Cover, and inside the C of cover is just a little perfectly cropped picture – [laughs] –

Amanda: That’s, that’s the third nipple man!

Sarah: That is the third nipple guy!

Amanda: That’s the third nipple man!

Sarah: Third nipple man! And then there’s one guy who’s, like, almost bleached out, ‘cause there’s text on top of his head.

Amanda: Poor guy.

Sarah: All right, so –

Amanda: Maybe it’s just like a seventh John DeSalvo, so it’s fine.

Sarah: Yeah, it’s fine; we already know what he looks like. I think if I, if I’m not going with the guy’s head is inside the C, I think I might have to go with, with Richard Gere over on the left there. He looks kind of –

Amanda: I like, I, I mean, I like –

Sarah: – he looks kind of baffled.

Amanda: Well, I like it because everyone else has long, dark, brunet hair –

Sarah: Yes.

Amanda: – and he’s one of the few that has shorter hair and blond hair.

Sarah: Yep. That’s true. There’s a lot of quad, quad muscles, too. Lot of flexing of thighs.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: So many abs. This collage is really just incredible.

Amanda: I feel like the Western guy with the leather vet, vest needs, like, a root touchup?

Sarah: Little bit. I know that cover, though!

Amanda: >> Photos must be full-length, no head shots, and remember, readers like cover models with bare chests, bedroom eyes, and in a sexy pose.

Remember that.

Sarah: But I know that cover. I think his name is Cody, which is not going to narrow it down in terms of romance heroes. I will put the picture of this guy in the leather vest in the, in the, in the visual aids. If you recognize what book this is, it’s going to drive me bonkers.

So the next one I wanted to talk about is page 74 of the PDF. Page 74 of the PDF is Amanda-bait.

Amanda: I’m going, I’m going, I’m going. [Laughs] Was it free-spirited romance from Jove’s Haunting Hearts?

Sarah: Haunting Hearts.

Amanda: What a terrible font.

Sarah: That is an absolutely dreadful font, but all of these books look creepy as fuck.

Amanda: Yeah, the guy, like, standing in the window?

Sarah: Yep. Earth Angel.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: >> As a ghost, he’s still one sexy guy, but he needs to, help to find Celeste.

I like Shadows in the Flame by Tess Farraday? Living down –

Amanda: Yeah, I just read this description! What?

Sarah: Read the description; it’s incredible!

Amanda: >> Living down Mother’s –

By the way, Mother is capitalized.

>> – Mother’s bad reputation isn’t easy, but Molly, snug in her cat-filled cottage –

Back to cats.

>> – tries. When Mother returns as a lusty ghost, she insists Molly fall in love immediately!

Sorry, my terrible mom has come back as a horny ghost, and she’s desperate for me to get married. [Laughs]

Sarah: I kind of think this sounds amazing?

Amanda: There’s also a cat on the cover.

Sarah: There’s a cat on the cover! This is a very cat issue. Like, I’m –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – I’m in support of cats for this one.

On page 86 is where I’m going next.

Amanda: That was my next one! We’re back to cruises!

Sarah: Cruises! Okay!

Amanda: We cannot get through an issue without a cruise mention.

Sarah: There’s always a cruise! But this is wild. Like, I spent some time with this because I really, this really got me thinking, Okay, do I want to try to organize a romance readers’ cruise? Like, say, like, the site is twenty-plus years old, and we’re just going to, we’re just going to go balls-to-the-wall and host a readers’ cruise. Would I want to do that, and would anyone come?

Amanda: I feel like people would go.

Sarah: You think so?

Amanda: Yeah. I don’t know if there’s a place that you can do a realistic poll –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: – anywhere?

Sarah: But I wonder: if you’re listening to this and you would go on a romance readers’ cruise in the future, I would love to hear what you think, because I feel like the magazine is telling us, Yo.

So this here, the fifteenth annual Book Lovers Convention was on board Carnival cruise ship April 17th through the 24th, 1998.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: And there’s a whole page about the Tamp-, so it sailed out of Tampa, which is not where a lot of cruises sail out. They’re usually in Port Canaveral now. I don’t remember –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – many sailing out of Tampa!

Amanda: Well, look, look at those theme park prices.

Sarah: I saw that! Busch Garden, $59; Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and MGM Studios, $70; Universal Studios Orlando, $67. Wow!

So there’s a whole bunch of stuff about what to do in Tampa, and then day one is George Town and Grand Cayman. All of the tours you can do. Basically, they’re, they’re, like, reprinting all of the excursions in the magazine.

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: They’re basically reprinting – these are not things that Romantic Times has arranged; these are Carnival excursions.

Then you get to the part where they start talking about the conference events, and this is where it gets amazing. So on PDF page 89, I could do a whole episode just about this one page. Okay.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So:

>> Parties, Perks, and Prizes. Swashbuckler Leland Burbank plans a scavenger hunt on and off the Carnival Celebration during the Romantic Times cruise. Participants will be asked to retrieve articles featured in romance novels. Fabulous prizes are planned. And for those who dream of spending all night long with this black-hearted pirate –

Ugh.

>> – Leland will be hosting a slumber party. First peop- –

Amanda: Ohhh.

Sarah: >> First fifty people to write to him –

Amanda: Ooh.

Sarah: >> – at Wild at Heart Cruise will be invited to this wild all-night party.

Okay, no.

Amanda: No, thank you!

Sarah: >> Win a cover shoot and painting worth twenty-five hundred dollars: one lucky grand prize raffle winner will win a day on the beach in Cozumel posing with gorgeous cover model Cherif Fortin.

He’s – or Fortin – he’s the guy who was later found to be –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – in gay pornography, and everyone lost their minds.

>> If that weren’t enough, cover illustrator Lynn Sanders will create a sixteen by twenty painting from the cover shoot!

Ah!

>> The winner will be announced at the costume competition on board the Carnival Celebration.

So you get to pose with Cherif Fortin, the cover model, and then they’re going to make a cover of the pictures that you take in the photo shoot. That’s almost –

Amanda: That is kind of cool.

Sarah: That’s almost as good as the custom perfume! Like, there’s good shit to win in this magazine! I feel like we should –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – you know, try to win some of this stuff.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: But the top of the line, top of the line best, best party – I am sad to have missed it – Heather Graham’s Scuba –

Amanda: [Laughs] I don’t understand this title at all!

Sarah: It’s amazing! It’s so great! Are you ready? Brace yourselves, everybody: Heather Graham’s Scuba-Doobie-Do Rock & Roll Rum Party! [Laughs] Do you want to read –

Amanda: That’s so much!

Sarah: – the description? It’s so great! Scuba-Doobie-Do!

Amanda: >> Begins sunset April 21st aboard the Carnival Celebration. After a sun-kissed day scuba diving and snorkeling, Heather Graham will host a party for all deep-sea divers and bathing beauties. A certified diver, Heather is excited about exploring the beautiful waters and majestic reefs off Grand Cayman. After diving, whether you’re an experienced or novice scuba or deep-sea diver, plan to attend Heather’s Sunset Rum Scuba, where we will rumba to the beat of the ocean as the sun sets and we sail on to Cozumel.

Sarah: What is happening?

Amanda: So wait, are we actually scuba diving with Heather Graham?

Sarah: No, I think that the scuba – [laughs] – the scuba diving will have already happened.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: But that’s –

Amanda: They focus a lot on the scuba diving in this description.

Sarah: Sunset Rum Scuba makes it sound like everyone’s just got their tanks and their masks and a glass of rum!

Amanda: Yeah, I don’t know if I would recommend scuba diving while drunk –

Sarah: Very bad idea.

Amanda: – at all.

Sarah: I, if anyone who’s listening is a scuba diver, I know you’re shaking your head like Nope, nope, nope-nope-nope.

Amanda: But also, if I’ve spent a “sun-kissed day scuba diving and snorkeling,” my ass is going to bed. Like, I, nothing sucks my energy out than spending a day in the sun. [Laughs]

Sarah: Especially because –

Amanda: I just want to go to bed.

Sarah: – without fail, no matter how careful you are, when you are scuba diving or snorkeling, you are generally face down, and you, you cannot get your back and the back of your arms and the back of your legs with enough sunscreen. You will have –

Amanda: One side is –

Sarah: – one side of you bright red, and you are going to want to go to bed, and you’re going to be uncomfortable. Maybe that’s why there’s rum, to sort of dull the pain.

Amanda: [Laughs] Maybe!

Sarah: I, okay, I would love it if we ever hosted a romance readers’ cruise, if I could get Heather Graham to come and be like, I just wanted you to do a Scuba-Doobie-Do party. Would you do a party? [Laughs] Would you do a Scuba-Doobie-Do party, please?

Amanda: But what if she never repeats a party more than once?

Sarah: Oh my God, and all of her ti-, all of the party titles that we’ve encountered that she, and she did one evening every conference, she was underwriting –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – one evening. There was always a show, it was a dinner, there was a mystery, she wrote a mystery, there was either a theater element, the – every party is different! Like, how did she keep coming up with ideas?

Amanda: I don’t know!

Sarah: What are we doing this year? Scuba-Doobie-Do! [Laughs]

Amanda: We’re like, Okay! Sure!

Sarah: I, I want Heather Graham to plan all the parties.

On page 94 and 95.

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: So, I’m going to tell you an embarrassing story. You want to hear an embarrassing story?

Amanda: Sure!

Sarah: Okay. While I was scanning this issue – it takes me a while to scan them, ‘cause this is, this is a big-ass magazine and I got a flatbed scanner that’s very slow – Reformed Rakes, which is a podcast hosted by three romance readers, including Chels, who was a guest on my show talking about BookTok and TikTok, Chels did a whole two-part series on Janet Dailey. So part one was about Janet Dailey and her marriage and her, the start of her career, and then part two was the fallout from the plagiarism, which happened, everybody, in 1997, and do we have a two-page article here about everything that happened, the rise and fall of a romance icon, the summer of discontent? Yes, yes, we do.

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: So the first episode had aired, and I had listened to it, and I was like, Wow, this is really good. It was Chels talking to their two co-hosts and just basically telling the story of Janet Dailey through press coverage and court filings and lots of stuff going on in Branson. They were, they were a big deal in Branson, Janet and Bill Dailey. So this is a two-page article by Anne Sullivan about Janet Dailey and her plagiarism of Nora Roberts. So I’m scanning, after I listened to the first one. The second one came out, but I hadn’t listened to it yet, and I’m scanning, and I’m like, Oh my gosh! She’s doing a series! Maybe she doesn’t have this. So I take a picture of it, and I send it to her, and I’m like, Hey! I don’t know if you have this one. I’m scanning December 1997, and I know you’re doing the series. Would you like to have this? So the next day I listened to this part two. Does she spend like an hour on this article because she already had it? Yes, yes, she did. Did you already have this one? Of course she did. Did I send it to her anyway? Yes, I did. Was I embarrassed? Extremely. But we had a really great conversation about all of the research that she did and how hard it is to find RTs.

This article is banana-crackers, and there is a really, really weird quote from this article that is attributed to the author. It doesn’t seem to be quoting anyone else; it seems to be just the author Anne Sullivan writing, and Chels spent a lot of time on this part. So what we have is this article about Nora Roberts being plagiarized by Janet Dailey, and then it, it kind of is really, really sympathetic to Janet Dailey and is kind of like low-key telling everybody to be nice to Janet?

Amanda: [Laughs]

Sarah: >> To this day, many writers often make two vital mistakes. First, they increase their overhead as if there is no tomorrow, and second, more than one husband has quit his job to dabble in sophisticated investments and ventures that fail.

Now, for the record, Bill and Janet Dailey were, according to all of the research that Chels did, and I’ll link to the two episodes of the podcast – they were bananas successful, extremely successful in development, and they owned theaters. They were big shots in Branson. It wasn’t like Janet Dailey’s career went up and down; that’s not the case here. And there’s all of this sup-, there’s all of this supposition about what caused Janet Dailey to, to plagiarize Nora Roberts, and they’re like, Oh, well, you know, she didn’t earn back her advance. She got a million-dollar advance! Like, they’re still publishing her and offering her multimillion dollars! It’s very silly.

Amanda: And, like, gotta be honest: if you don’t earn it back, like, most of the time you just have that money now. It’s not like –

Sarah: They’re not coming back for it!

Amanda: They’re not going to – yeah. Janet’s not going to be on the hook to pay the publisher back herself.

Sarah: And what’s really wild about this whole article: Nora is hardly mentioned at all. Oh, and here’s the other, other part that’s awful:

>> Kathryn Falk recently made an observation about the now-famous Janet Dailey Award given out by Romance Writers of America, which goes to a writer whose work sheds light on a pertinent social issue. When the organization was in the process of removing Janet from its membership for the recent plagiarism, Ms. Falk said that if Janet went over the brink because her friends had deserted her, would they want that on their conscience?

What are you trying to say here, ma’am? If Janet survives this ordeal without going over the deep end, RWA should reinstate Dailey back into the group and give her her own award next year! We, when the legals, legal matters are settled, everyone should be compassionate to both writers. They both suffered. And then it ends with:

>> I hope good can come out of this, because Janet was an admired and much-loved pioneer of the genre at its infancy, and for a woman who has written so many happy endings for so many people, it’s time she had one of her own at long last.

Amanda: Didn’t she have one of her own before she got caught plagiarizing? [Laughs]

Sarah: She had like several million dollar happy endings, and this al-, this ar-, this article also spends a lot of time making it seem like Bill, her husband, was the manipulative driving force behind her career, and there’s not a lot of evidence that that’s the case? The way that Chels and her, and, and their co-host described it, it, there are a lot of quotes from Janet and Bill where it sounds like a really not-great relationship, but they don’t realize how they sound. They’re just describing their relationship, and it, it comes across very weird? But it’s also not necessarily possible to say, Oh, and it was this; it was this kind of relationship. Like, you don’t know; they’re, they’re both dead at this point.

Amanda: Yep.

Sarah: I can’t believe how little Nora Roberts is in this article. Like, there’s a picture of her; that’s really it.

Amanda: Yeah. I mean, the focus is clearly on Janet here –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – not Nora.

Sarah: Which is wi- – and, and if you look at the page with the picture of Janet and Bill?

>> Unlike Nora, whose second husband continues to work as a master carpenter, Janet’s business became Bill’s, Bill Dailey’s, and he started making big plans to invest her earnings in Branson, Missouri real estate.

That’s actually not true! That happened first! He was, he was investing all over the place first! So this really just laid all of the, the decisions that Janet Dailey made and, like, tried to blame her husband. It’s really weird revisionist history.

Amanda: I wonder how pissed Nora was about this article.

Sarah: The next thing I wanted to talk about is page 105 of the PDF? Essence of Romance on diskette!

Amanda: I saw that! I had that in my notes. I was like, What?

Sarah: It’s, it’s a database!

Amanda: [Sighs]

Sarah: It’s a database! It’s a diskette database! Essence of Romance! I love this! Do you want to read what’s included?

Amanda: Can you even get it anymore?

Sarah: I’m going to look and see if I can find it, but –

Amanda: I don’t think you could put it on a computer. None of these computers these days have – you’d have to get something. So:

>> Essence of Romance on diskette: seven-thousand-plus authors; over forty-thousand-plus titles; view/print author and/or titles, AKAs, anthologies, titled series, sequels, sagas, spinoffs, and numbered series; includes all information through 1996.

It is $65.95 plus $4.00 shipping.

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: …like, update six picks up where Essence of Romance ends in 1994 and carries forward to mid 1997. They have Essence of Romance 2. It’s being reprinted in full, two volumes, with –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – all info through December 1997. Spiral-bound, laminated cover?

Sarah: $69.95!

Amanda: Or you get romance by the title: lists over forty thousand titles alphabetically with the author’s name.

Sarah: That does nothing for me –

Amanda: Spiral-bound –

Sarah: – I don’t remember titles.

Amanda: – laminated –

[Laughter]

Amanda: – laminated cover, fifty-two – yeah, you need to put some pictures in there.

Sarah: So we talked about the Essence of Romance because it was advertised in the May 1994 ads and features, May 1994 being, of course, Heaven with Hot Oates on the cover.

Amanda: Hot Oates!

Sarah: Essence of Romance in 1994 was only $24.95 and $3.00 shipping and handling, so prices have gone up for the Essence of Romance. That was a spiral-bound – yeah, this was a, this appears to be a spiral-bound back in 1994; now it is a –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – diskette! So what, you just open it up and it’s like a, like a Word file of titles and authors, and you paid seventy bucks for that! Oh my goodness!

Amanda: I guess! I tested to see if the website was still active, and it’s not.

Sarah: No, it’s not. This is where I wish that, like, a large part of the internet was in the Internet Archive, ‘cause I would love to see what these websites look like. Also, it says at the bottom there, at the top under EOR on diskette, DOS based. [Laughs] You have to boot it in DOS!

Amanda: I saw that.

Sarah: Oh my God!

So page 118: I love the classifieds. I just, I just love them. I could read all of them. If you’re looking for books, they want to help you find books. Tell them what books you’re looking for, and they will find them. They will, these people are ready –

Amanda: Literally every classified is about, like, a book-finding service.

Sarah: The one in the dead center? The Ridiculous Bookstore.

>> PO Box 478 in Saucier, Mississippi. An incredible full-service bookstore. Most books half price with shipping and handling.

It just –

>> Send your wishlist and a self-addressed stamped envelope or call for a free catalog.

Everybody here wants to find your books that you’re looking for.

Amanda: There’s twenty-four hour shopping by email –

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: – or the US postal service. When –

Sarah: I know the US postal service has hours; don’t lie. [Laughs]

Amanda: >> We now have over twenty thousand books in stock and are updating our inventory listings. Send three dollars if you would like to be placed on the mailing list to receive them.

Sarah: What?!

Amanda: So you pay this person three dollars to send you their – [laughs] – inventory list.

Sarah: No.

Two last pages. Indigo captures the spirit of romance. Did you flag this too?

Amanda: Yeah, ‘cause it’s, you know, it’s the back two covers, the inside and outside, so it’s, like, full color, and I’m like, I like this ad. It is fun and colorful.

Sarah: It’s gorgeous, and it’s got really good-looking covers on it. Indigo love stories, published by Genesis Press, which I think was one of the earliest cover, publishers of Black romance. But the covers are good-looking; the ad is good-looking? Like, this is a really good ad. Whatever money they spent, they spent it well!

Amanda: I’m curious if this ad was designed independently, like by Indigo?

Sarah: Mmm.

Amanda: Because the pink and purple I feel like match well with the pinks and purples on the actual cover?

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: Like Sheik? So I’m very curious if, you know, this was, these color schemes were added after the fact? Or if they just designed this on their own and it just so happened to match with the actual cover.

Sarah: Genesis Press, by the way, was founded in 1993 by Wilbur and Dorothy Colom, and they released their first novel in 1995. So this is two years later, and they have a full-page ad, full-color ad on the back inside cover. That’s pretty frigging great.

And then finally, the back cover is Brenda Joyce, and this is very –

Amanda: It’s just Brenda Joyce.

Sarah: It’s just Brenda Joyce looking very wealthy. Like, this is an I’m-a-rich-lady pose. It’s a white silk dress with big jewelry and nice shoes; those are great shoes.

Amanda: On, like, a marble staircase.

Sarah: Marble staircase, gorgeous hair. But here’s the thing: I, I’m going to put a link to her website. Her hair now is so different? Like, I would not –

Amanda: Okay.

Sarah: – guess that they are the same person.

Amanda: I’m waiting. [Gasps]

Sarah: [Laughs] Amanda just, head just tilted all the way to the right!

Amanda: That does not look like the same woman? This woman looks like she hasn’t aged a day and might even be younger –

Sarah: Yes!

Amanda: – than this woman –

Sarah: And this was –

Amanda: – sitting on the stairs.

Sarah: – twenty-seven years ago? Is that what we said, twenty-seven?

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Twenty-seven years ago?

Amanda: Brenda, what is your secret?

Sarah: Please tell us your secret. She lives in Arizona, dividing her time between writing powerful love stories and showing her reining horses. So maybe it’s the horses and the writing? But this ad is all about branding her name with her book. Like, her book is The Finer Things and Splendor.

>> Brenda Joyce means passion, breathtaking emotion, powerful characters.

But the consistency of how her branding with her image works, she still looks really posh.

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: Isn’t that wild?

Amanda: Is this her on a horse?

Sarah: Oh, Amanda. Amanda.

Amanda: Yeah. [Laughs]

Sarah: Her stables are named Storybook Stables. I love it! And there’s a picture of her down at the bottom of that article like an ad for Storybook Stables?

Amanda: Yeah, with her husband?

Sarah: With her husband. They all, they look gooood! There’s a good-looking horse –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – and good-looking people – oh my goodness! Look at that!

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: Wooow!

Amanda: I’ve got to be honest: there’s something about the ‘90s and the way women styled themselves in the ‘90s that makes them look older.

Sarah: You think?

Amanda: Yes. ‘Cause, like, if you go back and watch, like, The Parent Trap with Lindsay Lohan, right?

Sarah: Yeah?

Amanda: I feel like the, like, stepmom was supposed to be relatively young-ish, probably in her late twenties.

Sarah: Well, I mean, I’m pretty sure that was Natasha Richardson, who’s like, who, who was –

Amanda: No, the stepmom, the evil stepmom.

Sarah: Ohhh!

Amanda: What’s-her-face; she played all the mean women in the ‘90s. [Laughs]

Sarah: Elaine Hendrix, the blonde lady?

Amanda: I think so.

Sarah: Meredith Blake. Yeah –

Amanda: Yes.

Sarah: – Natasha Richardson was the mom, and Natasha Richardson was, like, preternaturally beautiful, like whoa.

Amanda: Yes. I feel like there’s something about ‘90s styling where you look at a person and you’re like, Oh, that person’s got to be like in their mid thirties, and you find out they’re like twenty-eight. I’ve been looking at myself at like thirty-five; no one believes I’m thirty-five. But there’s just something about, like, ‘90s styling, looking at photos of women makes them look older than what I would suspect.

Sarah: And this fits with the, with the glamour shots of authors, right? Like, everyone is very glam, but all of that is a much older look. It’s, it’s a completely different esthetic, right?

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: Super, super different.

So what did you think of this issue? Was this one fun?

Amanda: So the reviews were underwhelming, ‘cause when you messaged me like, This one is so fun, I was expecting fun for reviews –

Sarah: No.

Amanda: – ‘cause I feel like most of our stuff leans towards like, These reviews are bonkers! But this one was interesting and fun feature-wise, simply because I feel like we just didn’t have a ton of reviews. Even though I will remember that weird Jayne Ann Krentz book until the day that I die with the existential martial artist mercenary.

Sarah: [Laughs] Former mercenary!

Amanda: Former mercenary. But I think from a historical perspective, this one was very interesting? To remind everyone, I didn’t start reading romance until 2005, 2006?

Sarah: Yeah.

Amanda: So I’m, like, this is all before me, but like I mentioned earlier, like, seeing these names that are still writing, that are getting another boost, like Julia Quinn –

Sarah: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: – like the Bridgerton series? Like, it’s interesting how long some authors have been, have been doing this. And are still doing it.

Sarah: It’s wild, right? It’s really wild. Like, Heather Graham? Still writing.

Amanda: Yeah. Still throwing parties somewhere.

Sarah: Scuba-doobie-do!

Amanda: [Laughs] And how there’s always a cruise mentioned!

Sarah: There’s always a cruise, and this one had a lot of cats, which was good. I think what I found –

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: – so fun about this episode – this episode – this issue is that I – there weren’t a lot of books? There were just, weren’t a lot of books published, but there were so many features building all of these different pieces of the magazine that, that we still encounter, like reader profiles and reader group profiles and Let’s tour an author’s house! And it’s really very much, at this time, still a fandom magazine?

Amanda: Yeah.

Sarah: And a celebrity magazine in one, and it’s weird that that’s a hybrid.

Amanda: I think the highlight of the magazine for me was seeing the, the chat rooms? And it’s like, Oh, join us Tuesdays at 9 if you want to talk about this –

Sarah: Yep.

Amanda: – or, you know, you know how Reddit does like an AMA now –

Sarah: Yeah!

Amanda: – where it’s like, Oh, Jude Deveraux’s going to be joining the chat room this, like, Friday at 9:30! Like, I thought that was so cool! And as someone who remembers AOL chat rooms, like, that was, like, really neat to see like an early artifact of an internet community in, like, real time, rather than, like, a forum.

Sarah: Isn’t it, isn’t it interesting just to, just to see how quick people were to grab onto communication or technology where you could talk to each other about books? Like, that’s so cool!

Amanda: Yeah!

Sarah: All right, so that was December 1997. Sheik!

Amanda: That was December 1997.

[music]

Sarah: And that brings us to the end of this week’s episode. Thank you again to Amanda for hanging out with me and talking about this issue. And thank you to Mari, who sent me so many of these older ones. They’re, they’re, they’re delightful. I can’t stop looking at this cover. I am convinced that is a belly dancer’s belt on her forehead, and I imagine it really hurt when she took that off. Ugh.

I will have links to everything that we talked about and all of the books that we mentioned in the show notes, and as always, do not miss the visual aids. The best thing about looking at books from 1997 are the covers, and the covers in this one are glorious. So there will be a link inside the podcast show notes to find the visual aids at smartbitchestrashybooks.com, or you can search episode 625 at Smart Bitches and it should pop right up.

As always, I end with a bad joke. And I forgot to put a joke in my show notes. That’s terrible! Oh, man, what am I thinking? I’ll be right back.

Bet I scared you there for a minute. Oh no, I would never leave you hanging. I just had to go find the joke that I had set aside; I just didn’t put it in the right place. Are you ready? Are you ready? This one’s worth waiting for; it’s terrible. This is from SuzieBaker1507.

What is the greatest name for a pet moth?

Give up? What’s the greatest name for a pet moth?

Mothew.

[Laughs] Mothew! Oh boy. Highlight of my day, I swear.

On behalf of everyone here, we wish you the very best of reading. Have a wonderful weekend, and we will see you back here next week.

Next week, also, is going to start, like – hang on. Yeah! Holy cow, next week starts August. How did that, how did that happen? Either way, August we’re going to do some exploration of reality TV and romance. I have an interview with Jodi McAlister about The Bachelor, and I have an interview with Shana about Real Housewives, and we’re going to recap the October 1999 issue with our special guest who won the Romancing the Vote auction. Woohoo! It’s going to be a very fun August. So get ready for reality TV and October 1999, but until then, have a great weekend and we’ll see you back here next week!

Smart Podcast, Trashy Books is part of the Frolic Podcast Network. You can find more outstanding podcasts to subscribe to at frolic.media/podcasts.

[end of music]