First Draft: A Dialogue of Writing is a weekly show featuring in-depth interviews with fiction, nonfiction, essay writers, and poets, highlighting the voices of writers as they discuss their work, their craft, and the literary arts. Hosted by Mitzi Rapkin, First Draft celebrates creative writing and the individuals who are dedicated to bringing their carefully chosen words to print as well as the impact writers have on the world we live in.

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In this episode, Mitzi talks to Natalie Goldberg about her new book, Writing on Empty: A Guide to Finding Your Voice.

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From the episode:

Mitzi Rapkin: So, for people who don’t know a lot about Zen, how could you succinctly say how that has helped you as a writer, and I don’t know if that can help others?

Natalie Goldberg: Well, it certainly has helped thousands of people, because I put it in Writing Down the Bones, scared to death, and it turned out people liked it, and it keeps selling. But okay, let me see succinctly: What are the real equipment of a writer? Well, for me, pen, paper and the human mind. Where do thoughts come from? Where do memories come from? Where does imagination come from? The mind. So, the better you understand the mind, the better you’re equipped to be a writer and not get tossed away by Covid. I did get tossed away. I got really badly tossed away but then I used it as a guide to examine my life again. Life challenges us all the time. You don’t just get it well, Natalie, you wrote Writing Down the Bones, yeah, but I can’t keep writing, Writing Down the Bones. Publishers want me to, and then if I did, they’d say that’s all she does. So, you can’t. You just have to keep going. The next book might be lousy, that’s okay, or you might not be able to write. You have terrible ideas, but keep your hand going, just like you don’t let your muscles get too relaxed. You get too flabby.

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Natalie Goldberg is the author of fifteen books, including Writing Down the Bones, which has sold over one million copies and has been translated into fourteen languages.  She co-edited a collection of talks by revered Zen teacher Katherine Thanas, The Truth of This Life.  Her new book is Writing on Empty: A Guide to Finding Your Voice.